CLAY: Paul in Toronto, Canada, has been waiting with us for a little while. Paul, what you got for us?
CALLER: Hey, thank you guys for having me on your show. I’m an infectious diseases epidemiologist with expertise in covid. I’ve been working in this for 19 months. So I wanted to just raise a point here. Our focus — my work — is in early treatment, which is that early treatment existed absent of the vaccine that we could have used to close this thing out. I’m saying here openly — I’m sharing my view based on all of the science right now — children are not candidates for these vaccines, under any circumstance.
CALLER: They’ve not been safety tested, the vaccines. They provide no opportunity for benefit for children, only potential opportunity for harms — and we are seeing the harms that have emerged and the CDC’s various database and the adverse events, the deaths, this is a very serious issue. And children have a natural protection that if we bypass it and we inject into the arm, we could get levels of death occurring in children the United States similar to what we’re seeing in the adults reporting in the CDC’s adverse database which only captures 1%.
And already we have 14,000 deaths. The purpose of this call is this: When we look at Israeli data today, we see that Israel implemented its booster program, two shots, August 1. When we plot the graphs, we saw that the infections were going up steadily. But what is very interesting and staggering is, if you look at August 1 onwards to now, you see that infections have exploded.
In fact, what is showing is that a booster program, the third shot, not only did not stop the transmission, it exploded the transmission. And we’re arguing that the vaccinated persons are carrying such a high viral load in their mouth, in their oral cavities, and nasopharyngeal passage they’re contributing to the spread. This is not a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
This has been false by the CDC and NIH. This is a pandemic of the vaccinated. Because when you look at the data out of U.K., most up to dated data is up to date. We see that the persons who have died infected with Delta, 70% of the deaths reported by Britain today — today — are those were double vaccinated. So what the media is saying is a complete misleading to the public.
And there’s a recent study very seminal out of Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. They had 69 health care workers who were confined to their facility for two weeks, locked down, and these health care workers were double vaccinated. What did they find? They find with this lockdown that the health care workers all transmitted the virus to each other because they type the virus molecularly to see. So the spread was within that facility, but more importantly, the research published in Lancet showed that the health care workers had a viral load 251 times — 251 times — viral load for the Delta.
BUCK: Paul, for everyone listening, you called in; you said you’re an epidemiologist based in Canada. Clearly, you’re very conversant in the studies and the situation going on here. How is it possible, medically…? Let’s just say possible within the proven yet, that anybody who would be vaccinated could have 250 times more viral particle than somebody who’s unvaccinated exposed to the virus? Can you just give us an understanding of how that could happen?
CALLER: Well, okay. But, first of all, I do have expertise. I live in the United States. I’m in Toronto today.
BUCK: Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t hear you were Canada based. But go ahead.
CALLER: (laughing) No, no. I’m infectious disease epidemiologist. Okay, the reality is we’ve always known that you never, ever vaccinate during an ongoing epidemic or pandemic. That’s a virologist’s greatest fear because you drive the variants and mutations. It is vaccination. You are putting evolutionary selection pressure on the pathogen.
And it is selecting variants that are highly more infectious, not lethal, because it does not want to kill the host. It wants to survive. So it’s mutating downwards, Muller’s ratchet. It will mutate downwards, highly infectious. And those that are highly infectious, very ease of transmission will be selected forward.
And those are the ones that are going to be the new dominant variant. So, we were doing that. We always had about 12 variants in the background in India, et cetera. And India vaccinated with the Sinovac, as an example, and then the Delta spread. It became the dominant variant for exactly how I just explained.
And then what they’re realizing now is the Pfizer vaccine that we have existing right now in the United States, clearly in Israel — because Pfizer vaccine is the Israeli vaccine — it just does not hit the Delta anymore. The Delta bypasses the antibodies that the vaccine produces. So you are literally at zero. When you take a vaccine today, you need to understand something.
The Wuhan strain — the Wuhan, the original strain February 2020 — was what Operation Warp Speed built those vaccines on. What we have existing today, the Delta variant. That Wuhan is long gone, a year now. It doesn’t exist. You are being vaccinated for the vaccine that will fail. I want you to listen to my words: Will fail. And those doing it, those in public health, the medical doctors know this.
There is no vaccine that is confer immunity like naturally acquired immunity. Those with natural immunity… Another thing to show you: Gazette, et al, just published a paper preprint out of Israel — and why Israel again? Because Israel was the first out of the box with Pfizer, has the most complete data, the most population vaccinated today.
They’re just published a study that was stunning, and it should turn this whole vaccine issue on its head now and should stop this garbage by the CDC and NIH about natural immunity is not a prominent issue and doesn’t really exist. That is bogus, BS.
CLAY: So let me just ask.
CALLER: It’s not true.
CLAY: You’ve obviously shared a lot of information from your perspective with us, Paul.
CALLER: I’m sharing you the science. It’s not my perspective.
CALLER: This is raw data. I’m just giving you the side that you don’t hear.
CLAY: I appreciate that. Is it your perspective, then — based on your knowledge and expertise — that the only way to end covid in the United States or anywhere in the world is natural immunity?
CALLER: Well, first of all, to answer, I appeared on Rush three times before. God bless him. I admire that man. Anyway, let me answer your question. The only way to end this today with the Delta is this: We strongly double down, triple down protection of the high-risk elderly in the nursing homes for the first time. We have never done it in the United States, Canada, Britain.
Our nursing homes have been the killing field. We need to step up and do it first. That is primary. While we are protecting the elderly for the first time, we implement some quick public service on vitamin D telling the public, “Get your house in order fitness-wise. Cut 15 to 20 pounds”. Obesity has emerged as the principal-super-loaded risk factor.
Third, while we are doing that, we offer the elderly in the nursing homes early outpatient treatment. We have anti-virals that work. We give it to them if they get infected. Why? We will get them through the infection, they will clear it, they will become naturally immune and survive. No hospitalization or death. That’s the problem. When we put them in the hospital, they will die.
At the emergency room door, you’re 40% increased risk. And fourth, the last part of this puzzle is, you allow the rest of the society — the infants, the children, the teenagers, the young, the middle-aged who are healthy and well. You allow the well in society to live a largely unfettered life, free — no masks, free — and let them face the pathogen like we’ve done for every pathogen.
They will become population level naturally immune. And there is no vaccine, not these narrow spike-specific conferred vaccine immunity that is bogus. Natural immunity is robust, complete, durable, and lifelong. We have evidence today of people from 1918 Spanish flu. We are seeing that the immunity has survived a hundred years.
BUCK: Paul, we appreciate the whirlwind of information and analysis here. We do have to our commercials. Thank you so much, though, for being with us, calling in. Clay, we can unpack this a little bit in a minute. Also, I think we gotta get that transcript. First of all, I want to know… We have a lot of docs listening. I just want to know so this guy calls in, epidemiologist, obviously, super articulate, smart guy, right?
He’s very conversant in all the Israeli data and everything else. Are there other docs listening of our audience who are like, “Yeah, this guy’s right; this guy gets it”? I’m just curious if we can get a little bit of that affirmation.
CLAY: Doctor-only calls. That’s not a bad idea.
BUCK: I’m sitting here saying, “All that he’s saying tracks with what I’ve read, and what type of heard from doctors in back channels.” So I’m wondering if anybody else who has an MD or is an epidemiologist can track with some of this.
CLAY: We’ve got a bunch of doctors who want to weigh in, I believe, but we’ll start with Julian in Tupelo, Mississippi. Julian, what did you think of Paul? Are you also a doctor?
CALLER: Yes. I’m an internal medicine subspecialist. I’m a fellow of the American College of Physicians. And I thought your guest from Toronto just nailed it. I mean, I’ve been reading avidly about this epidemic since its outset. And there’s another epidemiologist, a guy named John Ioannidis.
CLAY: Yes, at Stanford.
CALLER: Right. In Stat, in March, he nailed what the mortality rate of this virus is gonna be based on the Diamond Princess microcosm.
CLAY: Cruise ship.
CALLER: Right. So yes, and what he said comports exactly with what I’ve seen in my practice here. I’ve had patients die who had been previously vaccinated. I’ve seen some pretty serious vaccine-related toxicities.
CLAY: Do you feel, by the way, Julian…? We hear from a lot of doctors that they don’t feel like they can speak out because it’s somewhat of a… Science has a variety of perspectives and opinions, and it’s as if if you say anything other than the vaccine is the greatest thing that’s ever been existed in human history, that you’ll be shouted down.
BUCK: You’re a monster who wants grandparents to die. Yeah.
CALLER: Right. Right. Well, 50 years ago most physicians were in private practice and businessmen. Now most of them are hired by corporate entities.
CLAY: That’s right.
CALLER: I work for a corporate entity so I could be censored or censured.
CLAY: Well, thank you for the call. We want to get a couple of doctors in.
BUCK: Gretchen in Reading, Pennsylvania, family medical practitioner. Gretchen, thanks so much.
CALLER: Hi. How are you? Thanks for taking my call.
BUCK: So what do you think about our caller before?
CALLER: Totally. 100% agree. I actually am a locum tenens doctor and I have worked over in the prison system in Hawaii before the vaccination came out, and I obviously survived. Of the 291 prison occupants, there was 18 that never got the virus — they should study them — and obviously were exposed to it and had no one die. But the therapy they were doing at the time was convalescent plasma. Didn’t have really… They weren’t using the other cheaper and effective generic therapeutics.
BUCK: Gretchen, can I ask, does it track for you what he said about the vaccinated, because of the process of how viruses evolve and react to vaccines during an ongoing pandemic — does it track — that you can have people who are vaccinated who are actually spreading, who have a higher viral load to spread while in many cases having no symptoms? Does that medically make sense to you as a possibility?
CALLER: You can be an asymptomatic shedder. You can shed the virus, yes.
BUCK: But could it be in greater numbers for the vaccinated in some cases than the unvaccinated? Because that was the claim that he made.
CALLER: That is what’s happening. This is a disease of the vaccinated at this point ’cause I am not vaccinated, and I obviously was exposed to coronavirus.
CLAY: You have natural antibodies, then, yourself?
CALLER: I haven’t gotten checked. I have not gotten checked.
CALLER: But I take care of myself. I try to eat properly. I’m not overweight. And I also take the therapeutic. My vitamin D level is good. That NAC, which has been studied previously using that in elderly to spike flu virus and —
CLAY: By the way, I want to get to — sorry to cut you off, Gretchen. I want to get to one more MD so we can get three of them reacting, Michael in Auburn, California, reacting to the call from Paul. We need you to be able to say fast because we’re finishing off the hour but did you agree with the substance of what he was saying?
CALLER: The answer is yes, in short. And I’ll make this quick, so I don’t sound so pretentious. I have two covid treatment patents pending, and I have recently FDA-approved investigational drug for cancer vaccine going into trial soon. So not to sound pretentious, but I just want to let you have that background. I’m writing a white paper on this about “first do no harm.”
And I think what he was missing… Everything he said I agreed with, but I think I was missing a few things to help the people understand what’s going on. If you look at your whole hand and consider that the virus and those spike proteins you’ve heard about are the fingers, you’re only vaccinated with the fingernail.
When someone is naturally immune, they make antibodies against the whole hand including the fingers. So it’s also less likely that that will have a chance to mutate, but it is more likely to mutate and give you some variants in the vaccinated people. And the naive, meaning uninfected, hey, the virus is happy. It’s not even gonna mutate. Did that make some sense?
BUCK: Yes, it does make sense, and by the way, Michael I’ve heard other MDs that I know personally explain it in a very similar fashion.